[00:00:09.05] - Gordon
Hello.
[00:00:09.23] - Taylor
Hello.
[00:00:10.10] - Gordon
My name's Gordon from Drayson Design.
[00:00:12.01] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.
[00:00:13.24] - Gordon
And welcome to "This Week With Taylor and Gordon," a weekly podcast and vidcast where we talk about things that have affected our businesses over the last 7 days. And thank you so much for joining us.
[00:00:24.10] - Taylor
Welcome back.
[00:00:25.06] - Gordon
Here we are at episode 243. I think when we get to 250, we need to sort of look back and reflect on how we've done over 250 episodes. I can't believe we got this far, to be honest. It's, you know, it's really good that we've kept it up.
[00:00:43.21] - Taylor
Yeah.
[00:00:44.14] - Gordon
So, let's not waste any further time and get straight into our topics. In fact, before we do that, any news for this week?
[00:00:53.17] - Taylor
Nothing from me.
[00:00:54.13] - Gordon
No. All right. Let's get straight into it then. Would you like to go first or shall I?
[00:00:58.09] - Taylor
You can go first this week.
[00:01:00.02] - Gordon
So this week I lost a customer. I was building a website for somebody, somebody I knew, someone, a friend of mine. And there were lots of delays on both sides. So for example, when you build a website, normally we require the full content before we start the work because that way you've got everything available to you and you can just go and build the site. If you're waiting for content at any point during that process, you end up sort of twiddling your thumbs waiting while the content is created or collated and sent to you. And that is sort of time that's dead because you've put time aside to build something and then it's just not happening because you don't have what you need. So quite often, one of the things we decided a long, long time ago was that we need all the content before we actually start on the site. Now, having agreed the spec of the website, I then waited for a year before I got any content. Now, the content consisted of text for all the pages, the sitemap and images. And that was all great when it arrived.
[00:02:27.01]
The sitemap had grown. So we went from, I think I quoted for something like 20 pages and it had grown to something like 42 pages, which is a huge increase.
[00:02:38.03] - Taylor
Yeah.
[00:02:39.10] - Gordon
And so, you know, I was feeling a little overwhelmed with the amount of work that I was being expected to do for the amount. And what I didn't do and I should have done, is to immediately contact the customer and go, "right, okay, we agreed this in the spec. Let's just refer back to the agreement we made, and this is what you're now asking for. So this is going to change the price of the website, and it's going to add this amount on, just to let you know, just to inform you, that's where we are." Now I didn't do that, I sort of stuck with it for a little bit, and I was getting a bit frustrated, and it took me a while, and then sort of 6 months later, they decided they weren't happy with the design of it, that again had been agreed, and they wanted a redesign. So, you know, all the work that had been done up to that date had been sort of then scrapped and we started over again with a new design. This design they really, really liked. And then the other problem we had is that when a client or a customer gives you the content, they then think, "right, that's my bit done, just up to them now, they can do it."
[00:03:51.25]
But because you don't know when you're getting that content, you have to then reschedule the work into the diary. Because at the point that I had all the content delivered to me, I then had like another 2 projects that I was working on. And I couldn't do anything until after that had been completed. And I sort of let the customer know that it was going to take a few months before I could actually start on it, and they weren't best happy with that. But, you know, again, that's down to me, I think, for not setting up proper expectations. And the long and the short of it is that they sort of— they didn't really understand what the process was, mainly because I didn't tell them properly. And they've decided that they've waited long enough and they, you know, they need to sort of break ties and look elsewhere for someone, even though they've actually loved the designs and they want to take the designs with them and take it on. So, they've paid, you know, an amount of money. I think it was 50% at the time, and they're not looking to get a full refund from the work that I've done.
[00:05:05.21]
I now need to sort of justify what I'm keeping and what I'm going to refund, if any, and sort of make it clear to them what work was done and what work has been sort of paid for already, and go back to them with that. And that's my next job. But, you know, there were mistakes made with both sides. I wasn't clear enough with the procedure and what was needed and when it was needed and how the work was going to happen. I also let it run a little bit. There were, you know, there's a couple of months when I just didn't do anything because basically I was snowed under doing other things. But again, I didn't— I wasn't communicative with the customer and let them know this. And also on their side, they didn't have the content available to me and possibly started the process of wanting a website a bit earlier than they should have done. Because, you know, if it was going to take a year for them to get the content, maybe they started the process a little bit early. The other thing is that, you know, when you quote for something, and it was 2 years ago now that I quoted, you know, prices move up and you find that you're doing this work for a lot less than your normal rate would be now.
[00:06:33.20]
And again, the quotes need to have sort of a deadline on them. So this quote is valid as long as the website is completed by this date. And then if they don't get the content to you, it's, you know, you're justified in saying, "right, well, that quote has now come and gone, I need to re-quote you." And that way you're not going to be then doing the work for a price that would have been fine 2 years ago, but isn't so good now. You had anything like this? Any comments?
[00:07:04.28] - Taylor
Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts on this. So I've had similar situations with projects, and also have a couple of things that I've implemented since then, and also things that people have told me about how they they deal with certain things. So the first one is having the contract that I get signed that goes along with the proposal. So the proposal is all about what's included, what they get. I now include what they— what it does include, but also what it doesn't include. So there's no ambiguity. When it comes to things like branding, when they go, "oh, can you design our brand guidelines?" Or "can you do SEO?" or anything that's outside of what I do, I make it very, very clear and then there's no confusion, there's no way for them to come back and say, "oh, I thought that was included." I have my entire process, kind of over the entire project of what it includes, what happens. I break out the entire project into phases, and so I will tell them "we're at this stage here, this is the phase." And then I also have a couple of things in the contract, things like a project restart clause.
[00:08:13.29]
And what that means is that if a project is over 2 weeks with waiting for the client, then there is one, a cost involved with restarting the project because it takes time and energy to get yourself back up to speed with where you are on their project. But also it doesn't guarantee when the project will restart. It's all based on my current workload. So they come back in 6 months' time and go, "sorry, I've been really busy. I haven't had a chance to— can we restart?" I'll go, "Absolutely, this is the cost, and I can fit you in in 2 months' time." There's nothing that they can come back and say because it was in the contract, you know, clearly stated. And, you know, they— again, they can't expect you to be able to jump onto the project because you've got other stuff, like you obviously experienced. But also, by setting that timeline, they obviously are aware, but then you will obviously have then secured that spot for them. So, you know, you don't then get new projects that are in because you're like, "okay, well, I've already scheduled this in."
[00:09:18.05]
Sending weekly updates, I think is a really important thing. Someone that I know, they send a weekly update saying "this is what we did this week, this is what's planned for next week," and just gives them a little project update. But if they can't do anything, so they have a blocker, so usually it's from the client's end, they're waiting for content, they're waiting for approval, they will still send an email. They'll say, "hey, didn't do anything this week, I'm still waiting for the content," or "I'm still waiting for you to approve this, next week, hopefully would like to move on to this, but until you've basically approved it or done whatever they need to do on their side, I can't move any further." And they'll just keep sending that same email every single week because it, one, keeps them up to date and reminds them and says, "look, I'm working on this project, but I can't proceed because I'm waiting on you." But also allows you to actually add that clause in and say, "look, it's been over 2 weeks now, your project has now been put on hold, there will be a cost attached to restarting the project, and obviously will be scheduled in."
[00:10:30.07]
And so, again, you're being very clear and open with them. And so that's something that, again, I've tried to, try to do. And yeah, I think just keeping clients in the loop is important. I know there's been very— there's been many projects where you don't do anything for a long time because you, like you said, you feel overwhelmed. You don't really know where to go. And sometimes there is not really an easy way other than just to get stuck in and just have a messy start, and you kind of just try and figure it out. Because you end up spending weeks where you're kind of like, "I don't really know where to start with this project." And that is, again, sometimes again on our side, where just because there's so many different things, it's hard to start on something.
[00:11:20.15] - Gordon
But I guess if you're sending weekly emails, which I haven't done up to now, You know, every time you get to writing an email, you sort of think, "well, this is down to me. I'm the one that's holding this up now." So I, and again, it sort of brings it to the forefront of your mind rather than just sort of pushing it behind everything.
[00:11:39.26] - Taylor
Exactly. That it adds the accountability to your side because you're thinking, "I've got an email to send on Friday."
[00:11:46.03] - Gordon
"I've got nothing to tell them."
[00:11:47.02] - Taylor
"I don't want to say I've got nothing, I haven't done anything." So it kind of pushes you to keep your project going from your side as well, even if it is, "I've, you know, I've added a new— I've created a new page, I've worked on that." It gives you something to add and tell them. It also shows that you are working on it, not just, you know, going silent. And I'm guilty of not doing these. It's something I want to do, but, you know, you sometimes feel guilty because you haven't done anything. And so it's something that I need to be a lot stricter with myself and a lot more disciplined with, you know making sure I am working on the projects throughout the week, and not just doing them in big batches where I'll do 4 hours at one time. And sometimes it's okay to do that because it's easier to do 4 hours because you're focused on that one thing than to kind of dip your toes in and out of every single project. But at least keeping yourself accountable, it keeps the project moving and ensures a smoother process.
[00:12:50.16] - Gordon
And I feel a little bit bad because I know the person very well, they're a friend, and I feel like I've let them down. But it's sort of a bit of me letting them down and them letting me down, and it's sort of that there were mistakes made on both sides. And, you know, we're leaving the process friends still. It just sometimes, you know, the fit isn't right. And you just need to sort of admit that there was a problem, admit that maybe you can't do what you've said you're going to do for whatever reason, and sort of just walk away and stay friends because that way you're going to at least come out of it without losing that friendship, which is, you know, sometimes much more important.
[00:13:40.06] - Taylor
I think it's also important that when you do have these kind of conversations that they're done on the phone. And there's been many times when I've been back and forth, I'm getting frustrated, you can obviously see that they are disappointed, they're angry, things like that. And sometimes it comes down to just lack of, or miscommunication. You know, sometimes when you call them, you know, they're a lot more understanding. And sometimes it's also that people don't want to blow their chill on the phone, but also making sure people are understanding and can see it from where you are. And, you know, you can explain and, you know, be apologetic if it's something from your side, but also just explain and say, "look, I've been waiting for you." But also, if it is your fault, then just hold your hands up. And I've done that before, and they are much more receptive.
[00:14:32.00] - Gordon
And these are tough phone calls to make. But, you know, they have to be made. It's, you know, I had a phone call with my customer and, you know, we had a really nice conversation and they thanked me for, you know, for making that call and to, you know, try and figure out where we were going to go with it. And so, you know, that basically took possibly, you know, several weeks worth of messages with both sides getting frustrated and angry, and we just did it all in sort of a 40-minute call, and that was so worthwhile. So yeah, communication and processes, I think, is what this all boils down to. Plus, you know, getting on with the project when you get the project. I mean, half the— well, more than half of the battle with business is to actually get the business in the first place. But once you've got that business, you then have to do what you've said you're going to do. Otherwise you're going to end up getting a bad name. Nobody wants that because a business is not going to survive long if you get a bad name. So yeah, there we go.
[00:15:43.24]
That was my experience this week. I've learned lots from it and come out the other side. So yeah, next time we'll make sure that we put more processes in place to make sure this doesn't happen. So a learning experience. What would you like to talk about today?
[00:16:01.25] - Taylor
So I want to talk about crossing the T's and dotting the I's. So I have been finishing projects. I love experimenting and trialling and testing new technology, new equipment, new projects, new ideas. And sometimes I find that I have so many different projects that while the project was very much worth doing because I learned the bit or thing that I wanted to learn, I kind of leave it at that point. And so what I've been trying to do is clean and delete old projects that they were okay, they were good, I learned what I needed to learn, but they're not something I need to keep, and just delete them. Remove all the emotion about it, just delete them. And for the ones that I do like, do want to use and enjoy. So I've built one called Cinema Sync, which allows me to find cinema, film— films at cinemas and then send them to somebody for kind of finding a film together that you want to watch. Or Routed, which is an app that I— a little app I built that allows you to automatically generate routes from where you are, based on either a time or a distance.
[00:17:15.13]
A lot of routes that...
[00:17:16.19] - Gordon
For walking or running, right?
[00:17:18.12] - Taylor
Exactly. And it's sometimes you want to run for 20 minutes because you only have 20 minutes, or, you're following a training plan, it says you need to go for 1.8 miles, and there are no routes that are 1.8 miles. They're usually rounded to 5K, 10K, or whatever, or you end up doing the same route all the time. So I built this little app that I use to just generate me a random route just to keep it fun. But I wanted to make sure that when I was displaying them and showing them to people that they were finished. They had a completed state. It's not to say I can't improve them and add to them and add new features, but I think a lot of the time when you're working on personal projects, just little ideas, there is no finish. You know, there's always things you could add. And so one thing that I'm very conscious about now when I start a new project is kind of defining what does finished look like. You know, finished for me is, is it mobile responsive?
[00:18:15.10]
Does it have all the finishing touches? Is it all the features that I wanted? Are they shipped inside of the project? And there aren't kind of half-baked, half-finished things. And if there is stuff, just move them to a different branch so I can always work on them later, and have something that is kind of done. And so when I kind of get to that point, I know, "okay, this is what I set out to do and this is finished." Making sure that the kind of READMEs, if they're on GitHub and they're open source, making sure they are finished, making sure people know how it works, what it looks like, having a little image, and making sure if people want to contribute, they know how to. And so that, for me, allows it really to kind of say, "that's finished," and put it aside, and then kind of can put it out my head and just use the app if it's something that I wanted to use, or, you know, have it there if I ever need to reference it in the future. And that's been really helpful because I always— I seem to kind of always jump around projects and things like that because there's always ideas that I have and I want to try out.
[00:19:15.20]
But yeah, I think the takeaway is finishing old projects and emotionally detaching yourself from old ones that are no longer relevant or aren't really useful.
[00:19:28.11] - Gordon
It's like chasing the new shiny thing, isn't it? You sort of, you work on something and then something more interesting comes along because you've learnt what you want to learn or you've done what you want to do. And then you sort of chase the new and you never sort of finish off the old, and you end up with lots of projects that are half done, three-quarters done, but never finished. So yeah, maybe the rule would be to finish one thing before you get on to the next thing. And then that will force you to get to a point when the previous project is finished to allow you to then move on to the next one.
[00:20:07.12] - Taylor
Yeah, and I think a lot of the way that I know something's finished, other than just, "has it got the features that I want?" But is, if I were selling this or doing this for a client project, would I be happy as to be paid, and would this be a completed project in their eyes? And so that kind of again helps me make sure that what I'm doing is of a certain standard, because even though these are personal projects, they don't really matter, if people are looking at them, and especially on GitHub, for example, and my personal website that has all the projects I work on, I want them to look like they're finished things, that I actually take pride in how it looks, how it works. Especially with things like AI these days, it's very easy to create new things, but sometimes they're in very unfinished formats or they're very messy or they don't have any sort of good user experience. And so again, even though they're not needed because it's just a little personal project, I still want them to have that professional grade finish and something that I'm proud of and take pride in for.
[00:21:15.05] - Gordon
Very good. Anything else you want to say today?
[00:21:17.28] - Taylor
I don't think so.
[00:21:18.29] - Gordon
There we go. Thank you very much for joining us. As always, we are on YouTube. Please like, share, and subscribe.
[00:21:26.15] - Taylor
You can also go to our website thisweekwith.co.uk to find all of our past episodes.
[00:21:31.08] - Gordon
And if you would prefer to listen to us, we're on all the major podcast platforms along with your smart speaker just ask it to play "This Week With Taylor and Gordon." We'll be back with you next Friday at 1pm. Until then, my name is Gordon and I'm from Drayson Design.
[00:21:47.20] - Taylor
And I'm Taylor from The Creative Tinker.
[00:21:50.00] - Gordon
Goodbye.
[00:21:50.17] - Taylor
Bye.
